Love, Pursuit, Diligence, Honesty, Innovation, Dedication

April 10, 2007, academician and researcher Li Jingwen of CASS was interviewed by researcher Dr. Li Xuesong of the Quantitative and Technical Economics Institute of CASS. The substance of the interview included the following: the path of life and the process of scholarship, main academic achievements, representative academic points of view and their influence on the academic community, basic views on his own research, the understanding and thoughts of his own professional cutting-edge issues, principles, integrity and style of life, work and scholarship, comments and suggestions for young scholars, and many other subjects.

Li Xuesong: Please talk about your path of life and the process of scholarship.

Li Jingwen: I was born to a small poor peasant family of intellectuals in Luchuan County (belonged to Yulin City), Guangxi Province, in January 1933. My grandfather was a poor peasant; my father Li Gengyuan was a school teacher and then later became a primary school principal and a university lecturer. Before he was the principal, my father had joined the Communist Party of China. As an educator and an underground Party worker, he made a great impact on the choice of my study and my whole path of life.

I studied first at a rural school and then went with my father to Nanning to study from primary to middle school. There was a period of time I transferred to another school due to the Japanese invasion. After graduating from high school in 1951, I was admitted to the National Wuhan University. During the first year, I participated in the land reform movement in Songzi County, Hubei Province and became the vice captain of the work team. At the age of 18, I was honored to join the Party. At this time, China began sending students to the Soviet Union and I was selected for the first batch of students to go to the preparation department of overseas study in the USSR at the Beijing Russian College to train for one year. In the autumn of 1953, I went abroad officially. I studied in two universities in the Soviet Union: Moscow Plekhanov National Institute of Economics, two years later I transferred to the Moscow State Institute of Economics. The two schools later merged and were renamed the “Russian University of Economics" after the disintegration of the Soviet Union. There have been several Chinese economists who studied there, including Liu Guoguang, Dong Fureng, Guo Wuxin, Zhang Shouyi, Zhan Yongjie, He Zhukang and so on. In 1958, after returning home with my master's degree in economics, I was sent to Hebei Development Planning Commission (1958 - 1959), then the National Planning Commission (1959 - 1963) to work and soon I was transferred to the preparatory group of the Beijing School of Economics (now the Capital University of Economics and Business). As a member of the Council, I was responsible for setting up a department as well as being the department director and the acting dean. Shortly after the establishment of the Beijing School of Economics, to respond to the call of the organization, I moved to Sichuan to participate in the Socialist Educational Movement and to be the vice captain and the acting captain of the “Four Cleanups” Movement team for one year. During the "Cultural Revolution", the "revolutionary movements" were in full swing and I was criticized as a “black seedling revisionist". After the reformation through labor in the “Reform-through-labor Institutions” and the “May Seventh” Cadre Schools, I was transferred back to Beijing in 1971 to work in the State Administration of Building Materials, in charge of policy research, and also served as the Engineer, Division Chief, Research Officer Then, I was promoted to the Director and the Assistant Director of the General Bureau. When the "Cultural Revolution" ended, the Period of Setting Wrong Things Right began; some research institutions and universities recovered their operations. In 1985, I was transferred to be the director of the Quantitative and Technical Economics Institute of CASS. Since then, I began a systematic study of economics. The following series of important results were studied by my comrades and after I went to the China Academy of Social Sciences. As the first director of the institute, I worked until retiring at 65 (1998). After retirement in 1999, I was hired as the president of the School of Management at Beijing University of Technology, and also served as a part-time professor in more than ten universities including Renmin University of China, Beijing Normal University, Beijing Jiaotong University, Wuhan University, Huazhong University of Science and Technology, Shandong University, Hunan University, Jilin University, Nanchang University, Guangxi University and other universities.

At the same time, I also served as the Member of the Academic Committee of CASS, Researcher, Doctoral Tutor, Director of Environment and Development Research Center, Director of Project Evaluation and Strategic Planning Center, Convener of the Applied Economics Group of the Academic Committee of the State Council, Convener of Reviewing Group of National Postdoctoral Economic and Management, Member of National Soft Science Steering Committee, Deputy Director of Applied Economics Group of National Social Sciences; the part-time leading member or consultant of Chinese Society of Technology Economics, Chinese Association of Quantitative Economics, Chinese Society for Sustainable Development, China Society of Urban Economy, Systems Engineering Society of China, Chinese Ecological Economics Society, Chinese Society of Astronautics and other academic communities as well as consultant to the Beijing Government Expert Advisory, Ministry of Science and Tech Industrial Development Zone, Capital Steel and Iron Company, Beihai City in Guangxi Province, E’zhou City in Hubei Province, Zhoushan City in Zhejiang Province and so on. In 1994, I was elected as the Foreign Member of  the Russian Academy; later was an Academician of Humanities and Sciences of the Russian Academy (1995), the Academician of Sciences of International Eurasian Academy (1998), the Academician of Sciences of World Productivity Academy (October 1999). In 2001, the Chinese Academy of Engineering absorbed me as an Academician. In 2006, I had the honor to be elected as the first batch of academicians to CASS.

For decades, I didn’t make an impact, but my working experiences were quite tortuous. I became very busy as an executive leader, engaging in research and teaching and worked across many disciplines which revealed different characteristics in my research activities compared with other scholars.

The people who have influenced me most are my father; I inherited his indomitable will, optimism and steaming ahead spirit. And my mother Zeng Renjie, she was a poor peasant girl, my father's child bride who took on our whole family’s farming work and also the burden of a wife and mother. She has the characteristics of loving labor and helpfulness. After the liberation, she studied all by herself, joined the Communist Party and became the Party's outstanding cadre. In her later years, as a Director of the Welfare Factory (factory for disabled people) in Guilin, she retired at 70. In addition, ther elder sister is a professor at Wuhan University who was three years older than I, and she also had a great influence on me. I am very interested in literature, so I chose two majors during the university entrance exam: Department of Economics, Wuhan University; Department of Creation, Southern Arts Academy. When I hesitated between the two university admissions notices, my sister encouraged me to study at the Department of Economics again and again. She said that studying economics would come in handy for building a new socialist China. Now thinking about it, I have to thank my sister for helping me make the choice.

Of course, during my primary school, secondary school, college, study in the Soviet Union and working at the China Academy of Social Sciences, a number of exemplary teachers, students and colleagues also played a vital role in my growth. When I was a child, I studied in a model primary school in Nanning. The principal’s first name was Niu who was the "model teacher" in the whole province and he was kind and rigorous with his students. In the university’s economics department, I admired the dean of the Department of Economics, Mr. Zhang Peigang, who, at that time, was a very distinguished professor. Many of Mr. Zhang’s insights on scholarship, life, society and economic research were imprinted on my mind and left a huge impression for a long time. When studying in the Soviet Union, my Master Instructor Arco also had a direct impact on my academic life. The foreign professor taught very well, but he was also a Director of the Soviet State Planning Commission. On one hand, he engaged in economic research, on the other hand he put the economic management theory into practice, which helped inspire me to develop my pragmatic and scientific attitude. At CASS, Comrade Liu Guoguang had a great influence on me. Under his guidance and support, I learned how to engage in scientific research in CASS, what I should adhere to, and learned a good life style. Liu Guoguang’s valuable point was that his life was more pragmatic and indifferent. After putting forward his own theory of ideas and policy recommendations for some of the issues, he began to grasp the next issue. When the Central Government formulated Chinese economic policies, it integrated a lot of his sound advice.

Li Xuesong: What were your main academic achievements?

Li Jingwen: I had long been engaged in technological economics, engineering management, scientific and technological progress, productivity economic theory and method, economic analysis and testing and other aspects. The academic circle called me an economist and scientist. They thought that I laid the economic basis of our technology to make it onto a wider road.

I had hosted a number of demonstrations of major state-level projects, including the Three Gorges Project, South-to-North Water Diversion Project and so on. I mainly argued the technical and economic effects of these major projects that mainly reflected in the results of a number of major projects and later were all published in the book Trans-Century Major Engineering And Economic Demonstrations. Such as the Three Gorges Project, we used our knowledge of economics and methods of quantitative economics to demonstrate how much investment was needed, how to raise investment and other issues; we also studied if investing these huge amounts of money in other major projects would bring how much revenue; use it to make a comparative analysis with the Three Gorges investment; after the completion of the Three Gorges Project what significant impact would there be on national socio-economic development. Before the start of the Three Gorges Project, the arguments lasted for a long time because the parties had very different opinions. The conclusions which I presided over were: the construction of the Three Gorges Project pros and cons; but comparing the advantages outweighed the disadvantages. If that rich water resource had no use, it was a pity! China itself was a big electrical energy using country and being short of this power, why not develop the Three Gorges hydropower resources for the benefit of all people; and the Three Gorges Project also had a great benefit on flood control, navigation, irrigation and so on which was the first conclusion. There was also someone against the construction of the Three Gorges Project: because China was still in the primary stage of socialism with a weak comprehensive national strength, we should wait until it was wealthy enough to build it. For this view, we made the second conclusion through careful measurement and comparison: the earlier we constructed the Three Gorges Project, the more benefits there were. If the construction came late, after decades of development, more factories and towns would be built on both sides of the Three Gorges. By that time, the cost of demolition would be higher, the damage to the environment of both sides would be even greater, and the fees of immigration and relocation would be more. So I stressed: "Three Gorges Project Construction had its pros and the earlier it is constructed, the more benefits it would bring. “Before the conclusion, after a thorough investigation, analysis and research, by using technological economics and related economic and technical indicators, we calculated the qualitative and quantitative analysis. Later, the overall conclusion of the Three Gorges Project was cited in our report: when the National People's Congress discussed the options for the Three Gorges Project, the Vice Premier at that time, Comrade Zou Jiahua, on behalf of the State Council citing these two conclusions made ​​the report. Facts had proved that using the knowledge of technical economics played an important role in the argument of the trans-century project.

I published more than 40 other monographs including Meet the New Era of Knowledge Economy, Theoretical Methods of Technical Economy, Technical Wealth of Nations, Productivity and Chinese, American and Japanese Economic Growth, Technological Progress and Industrial Structure, Chinese Economy in the 21st Century, more than 400 papers (some of which were co-completed), and several times won the National S&T Progress Awards, “Five Top Project” Prize, Sun Yefang Economic Prize and provincial-level awards. I was satisfied with two works: one was Technical Wealth of Nations (Social Science Literature Press) that mainly explained the importance of scientific and technological progress and explored how to ensure technological development and progress. At that time the CPC Central Committee put forward: the Four Cardinal Principles are the very foundation on which we build our country; reform and opening up are the path to a stronger China. In my opinion, we stood because of this “cardinal”, we knew how to go because of the “path”, but if there was no motivation, it was difficult to make more than one billion people well-off. Therefore, I proposed to add “Scientific and technological progress was the source for enriching the nation”. Technical Wealth of Nations systematically expounded my idea and policy advocacy on this. State Science and Technology very appreciated my ideas and referred them to the Central government. Later, the central government formally proposed the “Strategy of Invigorating China Through Science and Education”. Therefore, I was very proud of playing a role on “Strategy of Invigorating China through Science and Education”.

The other book I was satisfied with was Technological Progress and Industrial Structure (Economic Science Press, I was the editor), a total of four books, that are, "introduction", "analysis", "effect" and "model". These four books analyze scientific and technological progress and industrial structure from theory to methods. These were my results on major soft science issues of the State Science Commission. Almost all major researchers at the Institute of Quantitative & Technical Economics participated in this subject. Until now, a lot of people thought that the series of books had creative insights on scientific and technological progress and industrial structure and some books analyzing technological progress and industrial structure also often cited our theories and methods.

Since engaging in economics, I had received many awards. Among them, there were a few I paid much attention to. First, the results of “technological progress and industrial structure" was the 1990 National Science and Technology Progress Award second prize; second, the "China Economic Analysis and Forecast" I had presided over, which won the 1996 National Science and Technology Progress Award second prize. There were also several issues which won the second or third prize, such as the argument for the Three Gorges Project, the results of Chinese transportation and so on. "China in 2000" (Mr. Ma Hong hosted) for which I received the first prizew which I chaired a sub-topic --- the "Chinese building materials industry in 2000". These awards were not only for single books, but also theories, methods and big issues of policy recommendations. At the same time, they were not my personal achievements, but the collective achievements of my research team led by me. The first time I won the Sun Yefang Economic Prize because of the books Technological Progress and Industrial Structure; the second Sun Yefang Economic Prize was for the monograph Technical Wealth of Nations.

Li Xuesong: Please talk about your representative academic points of view and their impact on academic circles?

Li Jingwen: My representative academic points of view and their influences on the academic community are mainly reflected in three points of view:

First, contribute for the creation of our new discipline --- technical economics. My monograph Theoretical Methods of Technical Economy was one of the earliest scholarly works of Chinese technical economics and management. I used to lead technical and economic research institutes and scholars in relevant units made the first systematic study of the laws of technological progress and economic growth, industrial structure and economic interactions at home and proposed the methods for measuring technological progress and there impact. The results of "technological progress and industrial structure” I presided over were adopted by the former State Planning Commission as an important reference for developing China’s first industrial policy. The theory “Scientific and technological progress was the source for enriching the nation” I put forward in the 1980s played a theoretical building role in the Chinese establishment of “Strategy of Invigorating China through Science and Education”. My lead on the groundbreaking subject studied Chinese total factor productivity and its contribution to economic growth. I cooperated with the United States Academy of Sciences, Professor Jorgenson of Harvard University and others, analyzed and compared Chinese, American and Japan productivity, wrote Productivity and Chinese, American and Japanese Economic Growth, which caused a big stir at home and abroad. Jorgensen called it "A major contribution to growing economics was an important basis for supporting and promoting policy development of world economic growth” and said "He (Li Jingwen) and his institute improved completely the empirical study of Chinese economic growth, the developmental methods brought the research in this field to an international level, and also provided a scientific basis of policy formulation for Chinese economic transformations".

Second, the establishment of Chinese engineering feasibility studies, theoretical methods and systems of planning and decision-making made a contribution. Early in the late 1970s, I proposed "reforming the fixed asset investment system”, recommended a feasibility study as a prerequisite for the construction and made specific proposals for our feasible study system. Many of my views were all adopted by the former State Planning Commission and made a contribution to the establishment of Chinese feasible study system. I served as the deputy head for evaluating experts on demonstrating the Three Gorges Project’s economic viability, the team leader for demonstrating comprehensively The South-North Water Transfer Project, head of the technical and economic team for demonstrating the Beijing Shanghai High Speed Rail Line, presided over a number of major national demonstration projects, which led to practice our theories and methods of feasible study.

Third, create the Chinese application of quantative economic theory and methods to forecast economic and technological trends and made a contribution to the development of macroeconomics and industry, regional development strategy and technology policy. Chinese economics had for a long time made qualitative analysis without quantitative analysis. I promoted and carried out quantitative economic analysis early in the domestic arena and used it to analyze the economic situation and predict future trends. Such as, "forecast Chinese economic development between 1996-2010", "forecast Chinese economic development between 1998-2050", "productivity and Chinese economic growth", "comprehensive study of economic growth mode”, “Beijing economic growth and industrial structure (1996-2010)" and other major national issues, and presided over the "economic analysis and macro-policy of sustainable development strategy of mineral resources ", "the economic problems of urbanization", “relevant policies and measures strategic researches on the development of Chinese oil and gas resources”, "regional economic division and policy adjustments" and other studies. Since 1990, I had led the research team twice a year in spring and autumn and predicted the analysis of Chinese economic trends which had a great influence at home and abroad and its result "analysis and forecast of the Chinese economic situation" the (Economic Blue Book) won the 1996 National Science and Technology Progress Award Second Prize. In 1994, I commissioned the 2010 report on predictive analysis of China's economic situation by the State Planning Commission’s 2010 that had become important foundation material for the development of "Nine Five" and 2010 development plan and their results Chinese Economy in the 21st Century won 1996 “Five Top Project Prize”; I presided over or participated in the development of electric the power, building materials, water conservancy, railway, logistics, aerospace and other sector development planning and technology policy, and the construction and development strategies, ideas and proposals of Shenzhen, Hainan, Hubei, five provinces in central China, most were adopted by local and central authorities.

Li Xuesong: Please explain your views on your field of study.

Li Jingwen: First, major projects of technical and economic feasibility. March 10, 2002, China Net released my points of view on major technical and economic feasibility study projects. In the current economic situation, countries implement a large number of projects, such as military research, aerospace, infrastructure design and high-tech projects, as well as a large number of medium and smaller projects such as technology and process modification, energy saving, new product development, and new market development in enterprises. It can be said that the projects constituted the basis for a modern social life. Large-scale projects for a country's economic growth and development have important implications. The Development of large-scale projects, being successful or not, determined the development speed and overall strength of a country, a region and business. With the increasing size of the project and the improvement of the technical complexity of the process, the professional division of labor became more sophisticated, the requirements of investors for the quality, schedule and investment efficiency of the project were increasing. Therefore, in order to improve investment decisions and to make them more scientific, we must first strengthen the project's technical and economic feasible studies, widely use theories and methods of technical economics and manage the project’s investment decision-making, make the project’s feasible study more institutionalized and standardized. At the same time, strengthen the project's social and environmental assessment; undertake professional risk analysis of investment projects. China’s economy has become an important part of the world economy and the engine. For nearly two years, construction investments exceeded 10 trillion yuan. The amount of large construction projects can not be matched with any country in the world. In order to ensure these investments achieve efficiency, enhance planning and projects’ demonstration are very important. So in the future, to strengthen and improve the research on theories and methods of projects’ technical and economic feasible studies, was the important task for government, business and academic circles.

Second, the recommendations for improving our resources’ pricing systems. In March 2004, Premier Wen Jiabao held an economic situation analysis forum, and proposed reforming Chinese energy resources pricing system for creating conditions for building a conservation-oriented society. In October 2005, the National Development and Reform Commission held a Chinese resources price reform seminar in Beijing’s Diaoyutai State Guesthouse. Vice Premier Zeng Peiyan attended the meeting and delivered an important speech. I delivered ​​a speech entitled "Perfect Resource Prices to Promote the Growth Pattern and Build a Conservation-oriented Society". In my view, undervaluing resource prices was one of the important reasons impeding Chinese economic growth and transformation. Factors of production including capital, labor, science and technology, among them, natural resources were the main components of the capital, which were the important material foundation of national economics and social development. How to develop strategies, adjust the layout, increase investment and develop resource allocation functions of the capital market, how to promote the modernization of industrial resources and achieve the sustainable use of resources had become a very important issue. As Chinese water, coal, electricity, gas, oil, land and other factors’ prices were strictly controlled by the government, far below the market equilibrium level, enterprises got the factors of production at low prices. At the same time, due to the lack of social control, many companies invested very little in environmental protection, production safety, social security, etc. Most business-related designs did not meet the national standard and avoided their social costs. In addition, since a few years ago, to encourage investment, invite business and attract investment, the land factor price was distorted. Many unprofitable projects became profitable. Furthermore, strict control over interest rates, low savings interest rates and the over market transition of labor, so the government had no appropriate protection for the price of labor. This serious distortion in factor prices made our resources hard to support, and that became the great obstacle to the new path of industrialization. If Wen did not completely change it, the market could not effectively inhibit the extensive growth, macro-control and could not get out of the maze of administrative intervention that would result in market failure and government failure. China’s traditional and old road of high input, high consumption, high cost, and low output had come to an end. If we didn’t change the growth mode as soon as possible, then China’s capital, technology, resources, environment and other conditions would find it difficult to support China’s economic high-speed train. Therefore, we must take resources conservation as a basic national policy, develop a recycling economy, and protect the ecological environment, or construct an environment friendly society.

In my opinion, our resources price distortions had deep historical and institutional roots. After the founding of the new China in 1953 ~ 1978, China began large-scale economic construction. At that time, adhering to the principle of maintaining public ownership as the main body, because of the international blockade and newborn survival problems of socialism, China opted for a development goal of "catch-up" with Western economic power. The establishment of this goal decided China’s development model and the path chosen was to take the road of one-sided development of heavy industry. And the basic characteristics of heavy industry as capital-intensive industries conflicted with China’s prevailing economic situation that was hard for the priority growth of heavy industry’s to achieve by means of market mechanisms. The way to solve this difficulty was to lower the cost of heavy industry development artificially, that is lower the capital, foreign exchange, energy, raw materials, agricultural products and the price of labor and the threshold of heavy industrial capital formation. As a result, a development strategy for prioritizing the growth of heavy industry, a macro-policy environment whose contents were comprehensivly distorting products and factor price was formed.. Choosing the development goals and path artificially created a set of policies for government to intervene in the economy directly.

In the most time of the planned economy, China implemented the separation of urban and rural dual economic structures. Serious urban and rural labor market segmentation, the strategic concept of re-industrialization not only led to lower agricultural and raw material prices, but also led to low productivity prices, that is, low wages and low interest rates. So it implemented a low exchange rate policy and foreign exchange controls, etc. The foreign trade policy under national control implemented a series of measures such as domestic export subsidies through distorting the exchange rate, tariffs, non-tariff quotas, licensing, and other measures as well as state monopoly trade to isolate domestic and international markets. Factor price distortions were the "legacy" of the old system, but with the strong inertia of the traditional path of industrialization, the easy way to achieve economic growth was to rely on elements and allocation of resources; in order to complete the assessment of the growth target, all levels of governments and businesses mostly made every effort to maintain the elements of the low state, thus promoting the escalation of this input, so that elements of price distortions were hard to change. To fundamentally solve the critical issue of the overheating problem of China’s economy at every turn, we must first straighten out the elements price formation mechanism, let market supply demand the factors’ price levels.

I made ​​a correct response to factor price distortions and that the establishment of a resource-saving society was the focus of the current concerns of the community. Resource conservation on the one hand required us to reduce the extensive exploitation of resources, on the other hand, it required us to improve efficiency of resource use. According to China’s specific national conditions, in the new stage of economic development, relying solely on market mechanisms and government regulation could not solve the issues in the resources industry, and economic and social development, we must establish "market --- government" co-ordination, the co-ordination of complex regulatory mechanisms. Overall, at least include the following aspects: maintain relatively high prices for resources, promote resource conservation and improve extraction efficiency; optimize the industrial structure, appropriately increase market concentration; develop policies and planning of economic, security and coordination of development; through adjusting fiscal policy, promote the rationalization of resource prices.

I recommended: a National Energy Fund should be established to establish the government's leading position in energy security, improve the implementation of a national energy strategy mechanism, ensure we achieve the main object of the national energy strategy, enhance the means and response to the national energy crisis and protect the national energy industry. In exceptional circumstances, the National Energy Fund could bear the stability for national defense and other national security expenses, could take the oil specific resource tax as a major source of funding of the National Energy Fund. At the same time, I suggested, we establish a pricing center of Chinese resources as soon as possible, establish Chinese participation in the world's resources pricing system, through their own mass production pricing center for domestic prices and use the bulk of the basic products to guide prices.

Third, I proposed to reform the initial distribution of national wealth.. In the spring of 2004, I spoke at the forum held by Premier Wen Jiabao and talked about the issues. Subsequently, on March 29, 2004, I wrote in the Economic Daily News: we should pay attention to the initial distribution of national wealth. Since 2003, China’s economy had entered a new round of rapid growth with significant results. This year, Chinese per capita GDP exceeded $ 1,000; a substantial growth in national revenue and foreign trade, import and export volumes rose to fourth place in the world, these achievements indicated that China’s comprehensive national strength had a new upgrade. But in the rapid economic development process, there did exist some of the more prominent issues: such as economic growth was largely based on excessive consumption of resources at the expense of the environment; overheating signs and risks, in some of the economic areas and industries, indeed existed. The problems of low economic efficiency and irrational industrial structure were not taken seriously enough. Therefore, we must emphasize economic growth and energy, raw materials, transportation and other actual conditions’ convergence, reduce the pressure on resources and environment; guide all sectors to focus on deepening reform, adjusting structure and improving economic benefits. There are four aspects to solve the outstanding problems in China’s economic growth: first, we must attach great importance and adjust the initial distribution of national wealth, carefully study and understand the ratio between accumulation and consumption. Second, timely and appropriately adjust fiscal policy, monetary policy and credit policy. Implement appropriately the policy of tax cuts to encourage and support business and personal investment and fiscal policy and credit policy should take ensuring steady economic growth as the real target. Third, adjust the industrial structure; and take a new road to industrialization. At the same time, correctly grasp the speed and scale of urbanization. China must establish an urbanization strategy according to our own national conditions, must not blindly compare the urbanization strategy with developed and some developing countries, could not pursue the increase in urbanization without an aim, love comparing targets, circle the land, blindly expand city size and engage in landmarks for the city to upgrade. Coordinate the relationship between economic development and urbanization. On the city structure, develop large, medium and small cities simultaneously, strengthen the construction of city groups and city chains, pay attention to cultivate the major cities and regional centers with economic strength and strong radiation, and we should better play the promoting role of urbanization on economic development. Fourth, we should combine the current actual situation with future development needs, related economic development, urban development and regional development and other work should be based on a plan. The plan should be formulated with the specific situation of all localities and departments listen to the views and the certification review of experts, and the deliberations of the NPC and CPPCC and public comment.

Li Xuesong: Please talk about your own knowledge and thinking on the professional cutting-edge.

Li Jingwen: First, on the knowledge economy and information economy. In September 2003, a high-level meeting organized and held by the Kingdee Software Group on Chinese business development and knowledge management, I was invited to chair the meeting and deliver speeches. I said, the concept of knowledge management had been around for only about ten years, but it had become quite common in developed countries because the majority of Fortune 500 companies mostly adopted knowledge management concepts and methods in business management, and that many well-known multinational companies had made remarkable achievements in this aspect. Chinese enterprises’ knowledge management was just beginning. The world had entered a new era, so Chinese enterprises needed to implement new theories and new methods of knowledge management. Catch up on knowledge management, drive business from the fundamental changes of organizational leadership, management, management philosophy, management system and other aspects, achieve a revolution on the traditional management approach, must not regard knowledge management as something solely used by the information sector or the training department, it related to overall business development. I called upon the government and business management departments to create better conditions for the collection of and dissemination and sharing, strengthen the intellectual property legal system, enhance the system construction of knowledge dissemination and sharing and train a large number of knowledge management experts.

Second, the theory and measurement of China’s productivity. In August 1998, Social Sciences Academic Press published the book The Frontier Analysis of Chinese Productivity co-edited by researcher Zhong Xueyi and me. The book was the results of “Eight Five” on philosophy and social science key issues, which was an in-depth study by Chinese scholars on Chinese productivity issues after Chinese, American and Japanese Productivity and Economic Growth collaboratively researched by Chinese, American and Japanese scholars in 1991. The research explained a new "endogenous" productivity connotation, and the development of a new concept of productivity. Our estimates for Chinese productivity covered all eight five-year plan periods and three year adjustment periods which were the currently most complete measurement results, because the measurement results were in line with the actual process of Chinese economic growth. The productivity proposition was one of the oldest propositions, but also the forever young proposition. If only companies increased their productivity, the productivity of the national economy would be improved.

Third, Economic Game Theory and other modern quantative analysis methods. The uses of Economic Game Theory and other modern quantative analysis methods in economics were significant steps forward in terms of economic theory that were and would make profound transformations for traditional micro-and macroeconomics. Economic decision-making was dynamic and using dynamic game theory could be a very good analysis and interpretation. Our research on economic issues, not only made the necessary qualitative analysis, but also the quantitative analysis. Only combining the qualitative and quantitative analysis, the analysis could be more in-depth, comprehensive and powerful. In this process, modern econometric analysis would come in handy when using these quantitative analysis tools; we should properly use these methods.

In addition, in some major practical aspects of involving professional methods, I had some knowledge and thoughts as below.

First, resources and the environmental economy. Professor Brown, director of the American Institute for the Future was widely criticized in China because he published Who Will Feed China? a few years ago. He recently published a new book B Model. Reporter Zhao Fan of China Land & Resources Net interviewed and asked me comments on the views of Professor Brown.I frankly expressed my views in the interview entitled Chinese Road and Brown's" B plan ".

I thought that in social development, the developing extent of its civilization must be closely related to the consumption of resources. This economic model was described as "A Plan" by Brown. In Brown’s explanation, there was a sensational view at the same time: in addition to oil, China’s other basic resource consumption had been much greater than the United States. Related to this, we would not easily agree with a hypothesis: If China continued in accordance with current American consumption patterns, by 2031, China would have consumed 2/3 of the world's food, twice the output of paper and global forest resources; land consumption for constructing roads and car parks would use the equivalent area of land used for the cultivation of rice. Brown believed that it was time for human beings to abandon the "A Plan" and choose an entirely different economic model.

I said, we should comprehensively and objectively evaluate Brown's view. The core of Brown's theory told us: the industrial development model had been used in the past was no longer feasible. Development of all countries should take the new road of conserving resources and protecting the environment. This idea was undoubtedly correct. Of course, the problems Brown explained, some of them were not accurate, especially the view that too much of China’s resource consumption had been used as a base for the "China Threat Theory". This was a distortion for Brown's point.

The industrial scale model, from the first industrial revolution, had 200 to 300 years of history. A large amount of resources consumption brought economic prosperity. The foundation of this way was the exaggerated human spirit. Human beings thought that we had vast natural resources and we were fully capable of using these resources. The development of this approach was based on two opposite characteristics: low cost and high efficiency. We now saw Western and the world economic civilization was created in such a way. Western developed countries, not only consumed their own resources, but also in the process of continuous colonization, plundered a lot of resources from other countries.

Why were people questioning this model? I said, because it brought a lot of serious problems, one was a plundering of resources consumption led to the reduction or even depletion of resources, and the other was the environmental problem. These two issues both showed that disharmony appeared between nature and human beings. Growth did not mean development. Now the development we were talking about, not simply pursuing GDP growth, but a quality development, is sustainable development in an economic society. As the world economy was becoming increasingly tense, countries had competition for oil, steel and food and other resources. The existing petroleum-based fuel and automobile-centered one-time economic model, not only did not apply to developing countries including China and India, but also did not apply to developed industrialized countries in the same way.

The old and the new development models were completely different in concept. Viewed from a sustainable development model, the development could not only take into account the country’s own benefits, but also should consider the benefits of society as a whole; we could not only take into account the modern benefits, but also took into account the benefits of future generations, so we should establish the overall effectiveness of economic development. If the "profit maximization" was the basic principle of economic operation in the past, then the "total benefit maximization" was the goal of sustainable economic development. The goal must have a realistic path. The sustainable development we had repeatedly stressed, the development of a recycling economy and Brown's "B Plan" were all showing this issue. In fact, many countries had recognized and got achievements in many areas, such as wind energy in Western European countries, solar energy development in Japan, the development of hybrid cars in the United States  etc., were all providing people with new economic prospects. China proposed and implemented people-oriented, and established the scientific development concept of comprehensive, coordinated and sustainable development which was doing the same thing in fact.

I stressed that the new economic model needed to solve two major problems of technological progress and system reform. Because China was a populous country, if we did not take into account the technological factors, we would have an anxiety of "Who will feed China". But our scientists had developed hybrid rice technology to increase food production significantly, so despite an ever increasing population, we did not lack food. How to understand the relationship between the system service reform and a new model, I thought: institutions and policies often affected the approach of the economic model. China had its own cultural characteristics, should have its own life and consumption patterns, and could not blindly regard the United States and other developed countries’ living standards as a reference. China’s development could not be a threat to the world. We must not say that China’s consumption of a large amount of resources for development was a "threat" to other countries. Most importantly, we had proposed a plan and measures to transform economic growth. As long as we paid attention and took real action, China was likely to embark on a new road of economic development with faster development and less resource consumption.

Second, technological progress in the promotion of corporate tax policy. In the Winter of 2005, I was entrusted by the National Development and Reform Commission to chair the subject of "Promoting the Technological Progress in Tax Policy Research in the Period of ’Eleventh Five-Year’” period. I led the team, through the comparison of international experiences and the comparative analysis of the development situation abroad, proposed that in the "Eleventh Five-Year" period, China would further promote the tax support policy recommendations of technological progress.

I studied the business technological progress and Chinese tax policy environment. From the 1990s, China established the strategy of “Invigorating China through Science and Education” and adopted a series of practical measures to promote the continuous development of science and technology, especially through tax support policy measures that would directly promote technological progress. The 21st century was the era of the knowledge economy that science and technology had played a great role and was constantly appealing for economic development, social progress, enhancing national power and other aspects. In developed countries during the early 1990s, knowledge or high-tech-based industries' contribution to the GDP growth rate was more than 50%, and with the improvement of the information level, this contribution rate was still developing. Therefore, countries around the world implemented special tax supporting policies for high-tech development and innovation to accelerate the pace of industrial restructuring, upgrade the industrial technology level and enhance international competitiveness in order to take the dominant position in the increasing competition of comprehensive national strength in the 21st century. I pointed out that, in the "Eleventh Five-Year" period, China should conform to the trend of globalization and technological progress, from its own national conditions, through the existing clean-up and improvement of tax support policies, innovate tax support policy, promote technological progress, increase business, scientific and technological content, adjust the industrial structure, promote industrial upgrading and enhance international competitiveness.

Tax support policies could guide the direction of a whole society’s capital investment, regardless of the planned economy era, or in the market economy era, these were all important tools for national macro-management and had an immeasurable impact on promoting the technological progress for increasing companies’ investment in technology. From the direction of existing tax support policies’ supporting content, mainly in the following areas: support enterprises purchasing domestically produced equipment, technology development, technological transformation and equipment renewal, guide the horizontal integration of enterprises and research institutes, promote the spread of technological R & D results, support the development of high-tech business and so on.

On the performing assessment of China’s tax support policies, tax mechanism as the external policy driver promoting technological progress, through incentives and constraints, or the guiding role from the exogenous variables induced to endogenous variables achieved remarkable results. Mainly as follows: a large number of enterprises had adopted technological innovation; accelerate technological innovation, enhance the competitiveness of enterprises; benefit from various tax support policies promoting technology diffusion, China’s trade had rapid development in technology, but also technological transformation between domestic enterprises and units; promote the rapid development of high-tech industries whose proportion of the national economy increased significantly that became a new economic growth point and the most dynamic part in China’s economic development; encourage the development of high-tech development zones, since 1991, the State Council has approved the establishment of 53 national high-tech industrial development zones, gave a series of corporate income tax relief and other tax support policies, successfully promoted high-tech enterprises and human resources accumulation in the zones, and promoted the extraordinary high-tech industry development zones.

Our analysis of the problems when we promoted enterprises’ technological progress regarding China’s tax policies, such as the lack of standardized and systematic tax support policies,  a too simple tax support form, the enterprise as the tax-supported target rather than the project or product, the tax support policies paid insufficient attention to traditional industries, inadequate attention to digestion, absorption and the re-creation of the introduction of technology, the lack of incentives for business’ prior behavior, insignificant social needs guidance on the impact of technological progress, the current VAT policy was not conducive to businesses to quickly update equipment and so on. We compared American, British, French, German, Japanese and other developed countries’ promoting technological progress in tax support policies, also studied in Indian, Brazilian, Philippines, Malaysia and other developing countries’ tax support measures. The implementation of financial incentives was the most commonly used policy tool to encourage foreign enterprises to increase investment in research and development and promote technological progress. In the countries with more rapid technological progress, mostly use tax support, financial support, and a variety of policies to promote technological progress. But due to the different levels of national conditions and technological advancements, the tax support policies promoting technological progress were not the same. Through a comparative analysis of tax support policies of these countries, we proposed a valuable reference for our recommendations. In my opinion, during the “Eleventh Five-Year”, the overall direction of tax reform in China was: Follow the guiding ideology "unified tax and administration, structural optimization, reasonable tax burden, solid tax base, policy transparency, access clear and effective regulation", further reform and improve the tax system, by unifying all types of enterprises’ tax system, reform value-added tax, optimize personal income taxation, adjust consumption tax, improve local tax, implementation of tax reform, reform the agricultural tax and other measures to optimize the tax system further for enterprises and create a fair and competitive environment. For this, I proposed: promoting value-added tax, unify enterprise income tax, further improve specific policies, such as the combination of policies to encourage research, encouraging development policies of human capital, additional low-pollution taxes, improving tax policy and financial support and so on.

Li Xuesong: Please talk about principle, integrity and life, work and scholarship style.

Li Jingwen:  My life principles are: love, pursuit, diligence, integrity, innovation, and dedication. Living life for decades, at most is "long life for one hundred years" which in human terms is only a brief moment. Time is limited but the pursuit is endless. With pursuit, life becomes full and the heart is full of hope. I was born in a poor family of intellectuals with the only family assets, the book. When I was a child, my goal was to become a writer, such as Mao Dun, Ba Jin, Zhang Tianyi, Tolstoy, Pushkin, Hugo and so on who were my idols. When I was older, I also wanted to be an historian and mathematician. But in the end I became an economist without really thinking about it. Engaging in teaching economics, particularly studying these emerging disciplines of the technical economy, quantative economics is interesting. In real life, there are too many economic issues, technical issues, and the best combination with technical and economic problems that require us to address and explore them in practice from theory. Over the years, I actively participated in these new disciplines in the creation and development of our country, threw myself in to scientific and technological progress, productivity, economic forecasting, feasibility studies, human resource development, sustainable development, regional planning and other areas of theoretical methods research, participated in and presided over the Three Gorges Project, the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway, South-to-North Water Diversion Project and other large technical and economic evaluation of projects, involving a wide area, difficult and arduous tasks, great labor time and intensity, but the more in-depth, the more interesting it was. Whenever the goal was closer, or could even be realized, monographs were published and studies were finalized, I would feel really pleased.

The driving force is the constant pursuit of love: loving life, loving work, loving my motherland and the people that gave birth to me, educating, loving my teachers, relatives and friends who trained and cared for me. Because of love, I am not afraid of difficulties and not bothered by heavier tasks.

The reality of pursuing needs hard work and innovation: eager to learn, diligent practice and innovation. Intelligence, spirit, environment, conditions are important and necessary. But the rice should be ate one mouthful at a time, things should be done one by one, so if there is no determination, perseverance and energy, it is unrealistic to succeed in business. In international and domestic competition today, engaging in an unprecedented study of the socialist market economic theory, the energy and spirit of innovation are even more important.

I pay much attention to integrating theory with practice and emphasizing practice. This might be related to my academic path which starts with the practice. Many scholars go from school to school, from research institution to research institution. For some time, I have thought that doing administrative work is wasting time, while it is not. I worked in institutions during those years that were a great help for the later study of economics. Whether on the State Construction Committee, National Development Planning Commission or the Ministry of Materials, in addition to doing a lot of practical work, but also because my position gave me a more comprehensive understanding of the country's economy or the status of an industry. There are certain advantages other than the general scholars’ subject research on the periphery. Because we must develop macro-thinking and look at the overall situation, deal with a lot of things personally, study and solve many problems. I understand that all problems have a certain degree of political, economic and cultural background, have deep historical roots, and are associated with a complex environment. After detailed research and analysis on each of the questions, the articles written could solve practical problems so that theoretical and practical workers could see the results. Good articles must meet national, and provincial conditions and local characteristics.

I am not in the high-end of science and I have never experienced the feeling of "He sits no sure that sits too high", on the contrary, I often have a sense of accomplishment overcoming difficulties. I think the deeper study of a subject, the less I know. A lot of issues, including economic issues and social issues, the more you know, the more you study, the more difficult your resolve. So I always feel I am very small and not arrogant. This is the basic law of academic life. Almost all the explorers pursuing knowledge for their whole life and having this mentality and understanding, would get better going step by step to the peak of their causes.

Li Xuesong: Please talk about your views and suggestions for young scholars?

Li Jingwen: I hope that young scholars lay solid foundations. On the one hand, learn Marxism well and adhere to the correct political orientation; on the other hand, properly grasp modern economic mathematical methods, economic model analysis, game theory, system engineering methods, lay a solid professional foundation while they are youung in order to make a greater contribution in the future.

Scholarship requires you to be solid, and stresses that "ten years of hard work succeeded in making a sword" because real high quality worked. However, universities, and various scientific research institutions require experts, professors and researchers every year to deliver results, at least "one year of hard work succeed in making a sword". This seems contradictory that is easy to force some scholars to achieve instant success. But on this issue, we should make a dialectical analysis and evaluation. Because the development of the economic situation is rapid and the socio-economic phenomenon of it is ever-changing, economics is a useful science, and it can’t wait for decades to make a sword. We emphasize the scientific attitude, rigorous study, high sense of responsibility and advocate long-term study and accumulation. Economics studies should have effectiveness and applicability, should address the current problems and timely research solutions.

Young scholars should pay attention to their health in advance. Over the years, I did not pay attention to body care and physical exercise; it wasn’t until I was nearly seventy years old that I realized how precious ones health is. Over the years, my health was not very good so there were some important academic activities I could not participate in. Sometimes, I really feel frustrated for my disappointing health. So, I advise the majority of young scholars to pay attention to work and rest, strengthen their health, scientifically organize your research activities and daily lives.

I have too many students, among them; many students who have great success: some are in universities or research institutions as professors or researchers. I hope they can be excellent in academic circles, develop a more regular theory for building a harmonious society and  and propose more valuable countermeasures; there are some students currently serving as leading cadres and some also serve at a provincial or ministerial level, I hope they can govern for the people with clean hands and be good cadres in the eyes of the people; there are some students doing business, I hope they are abiding by the law and are making more contributions to market prosperity.

I hope young scholars can learn modesty, learn continuously, be prudent, have continuously improve, and learn and then to know enough. I hope that young people in school should study hard and prepare the knowledge well. When I was young, Comrade Mao Zedong said: "The world is yours, also ours, finally yours." I hope that our young people can make more effort to make more contributions to build the new world.

Li Xuesong: You served as the Quantitative and Technical Director of the Economic Research Institute, currently serve as president of several economy and administration colleges, also served on the CPPCC National Committee and the National People's Congress. Please talk about your experience and understanding of the legacy, the management of academic institutions and political participation?

Li Jingwen: I have three points of understanding on legacy and the management of academic institutions:

First, the legacy of the principle must be out of the public mind, deal with the problem justly, fairly and openly. In the early 1980s, I was transferred to be the head of the Institute of Quantitative and Technical Economics. Because of the remaining issues of the "Great Cultural Revolution", comrades inside the institute had a number of different views on these issues. I thought, treating the comrades inside the institute should “hold a bowl of water level—be impartial”. Everything worked on the issue rather than people so that we could gradually pull together all comrades.

Second, the legacy regards research as the center, by grasping the important issues to unite all comrades. I had undertaken a major soft science project "technological progress and industrial structure" of the State Science and Technology Institute to mobilize all comrades to accomplish this task with unity, not only for high-quality results, but also to strengthen solidarity.

Third, promote the mixing of age groups, learn from each other and comply with each other. Older scholars’ academic foundation are generally more solid; they are more experienced and have a more rigorous attitude; but because of their ages and energy, their acceptance of new things is relatively slow; Young scholars have more agile and active thinking and they are energetic, but their academic foundations or research experiences are not that good, also they want quick success. I suggest that these two research efforts should be well integrated and learn from each other.

The question is how to scientifically process, how to straighten the mentality of being an official, a scholar and a man. I think, engaging in administrative or practical work, really needs scholars with different qualities. However, some basic qualities are still the same, such as sincere, serious and responsible, realistic, and selfless devotion and so on. Some can not be exactly complementary. Such as scholarship, mainly learning theory, absorb new knowledge and research and explore solutions to the problem; doing practical work is mainly dealing with human relations, coordinating interests, effectively mobilizing resources and solving practical problems. The requirements of scholarship and life are uniform.

I was on the seventh and Ninth CPPCC National Committee, the CPPCC National Committee of the Economic Committee, and the Eighth National People's Congress. As a scholar, how to play my role in political participation? How to influence government decision-making by using their own thinking and academic theory? In my opinion, as a member of the CPPCC National Committee and NPC deputy, this could be done mainly through reflection and discussion with the knowledge I had learned and with research through participation in the conferences. Through speeches, conference presentations, proposals, make some good and practical advice. I think that political participation is the highest level of academic scholarship. If an economic scholar’s academic theory or point of view has no effect on government decision-making, it is impossible to truly apply their knowledge. This is a waste for scholars or the community. Of course, some scholars’ points of view may be one-sided, not very good, but at least let government or society know; some ideas may be useful in the short term, some may be useful for the future. I think successful scholars should present their own research, through participation in the form of the CPPCC and National People's Congress, and be important persons for government agencies; this is an excellent opportunity for Chinese intellectuals.

In my opinion, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences research and university research should be essentially the same. But I think the Academy of Social Sciences, as a special high-level scientific research institution, with excellent staff, more concentrated experience and a good research atmosphere is relatively easy to produce results. In universities, many people have to engage in teaching and research, so they tend to trade-off. However, for each scholar, their situation is not the same. In my opinion, scientists (including social scientists) do part-time jobs in universities, well-known university professors do part-time jobs in other well-known universities, that are good for both universities and academicians. These outside experts teach their theories and ideas to students, so that more students feel the power of knowledge and create happiness. And doing a part-time job in the university, exchanging with young students, can be both a teaching and learning experience, inspire thought, and break down some of the academic meridians. General university teachers have difficulties in undertaking or participating in major national issues, difficult to directly understand the policy of the central spirit and the country's actual economic situation. This inherent limitation makes them inaccessible to research at the highest level. Therefore, universities should strive to create conditions to encourage teachers to participate in the practice of economic construction and social development. If possible, should always hire outside experts and scholars as part-time professors, so that the students and teachers can gain equal benefits.

Li Xuesong, male, born in 1970, doctor of economics. Is a visiting scholar at the Department of Economics at the University of Chicago, Quantitative and Technical Economics Institute Fellow of CASS, and Research Director of economic models. Research areas: theories and applications of economic models (econometric models and CGE models), economic analysis and forecasting.

(Translated by Zhufuxiaofei)